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A 20th century submarine is mysteriously transported into the far future, where it plays a vital role in the ongoing war between the Winged Men and their loathsome marine enemies I do hope that the doughty submariners joined the right side as Harry Harrison s Star Smashers Of The Galaxy Rangers wittily points out, identifying the good guys is not always as straightforward as you first think.One memorable peculiarity of the Winged Men is that their counting system is oriented towards the nu A 20th century submarine is mysteriously transported into the far future, where it plays a vital role in the ongoing war between the Winged Men and their loathsome marine enemies I do hope that the doughty submariners joined the right side as Harry Harrison s Star Smashers Of The Galaxy Rangers wittily points out, identifying the good guys is not always as straightforward as you first think.One memorable peculiarity of the Winged Men is that their counting system is oriented towards the number 9, so they for example say 999 where we would say 1000 My personal theory is that they are the flying descendents of supermarket checkout clerks, though I am forced to admit that there is little direct support for it in the text Starts slow but then has some of teh awesomest scenes later on I have ever read The dude from liek 12,000 years in the future who takes on was it croodile aliens with mad forces n pwoers u cant understand si outa control awesome one of my fav characters now I think overall plot was kinda backdrop for some awesome fights..coulda been a bit tighter and definitly not at the silie or battle fo forever or isher level but medium vogt is 1000 mile sboave all other scifi outside fo jack vance micha Starts slow but then has some of teh awesomest scenes later on I have ever read The dude from liek 12,000 years in the future who takes on was it croodile aliens with mad forces n pwoers u cant understand si outa control awesome one of my fav characters now I think overall plot was kinda backdrop for some awesome fights..coulda been a bit tighter and definitly not at the silie or battle fo forever or isher level but medium vogt is 1000 mile sboave all other scifi outside fo jack vance michael moorcock robert e howard or steve perry conan really maybe bacl company 1 4 come close Nuclear hybrid sub has a diesel engine as well and its crew is shanghaied into the 320th century 30 thousand years from now by some flying humans that want them to destroy an enemy race of humans who live under water They re not alone A number of other vessels from other Earth eras are floating around the home of the winged humans, which floats in the air above the ocean.There s a lotto this, but I don t want to give away the whole plot or you won t have fun reading it.Yes, I enjoyed Nuclear hybrid sub has a diesel engine as well and its crew is shanghaied into the 320th century 30 thousand years from now by some flying humans that want them to destroy an enemy race of humans who live under water They re not alone A number of other vessels from other Earth eras are floating around the home of the winged humans, which floats in the air above the ocean.There s a lotto this, but I don t want to give away the whole plot or you won t have fun reading it.Yes, I enjoyed reading it And it s going back into my library to be read again sometime in the future This review has been hidden because it contains spoilers To view it, click here IT WASN T A BIRD BUT IT COULDN T BE A MANLt William Kenlon had watched the incredible creature circling the submarine Sea Serpent in the darkness of the night, and he could barely believe what he saw The giant winged monster was human and it was intent on some purpose that involved the sub and its crew.Then the creature landed and suddenly, impossibly, the Sea Serpent was in another world A world of the far future, where the land was uninhabitable and humanity as Kenlon knew it had died IT WASN T A BIRD BUT IT COULDN T BE A MANLt William Kenlon had watched the incredible creature circling the submarine Sea Serpent in the darkness of the night, and he could barely believe what he saw The giant winged monster was human and it was intent on some purpose that involved the sub and its crew.Then the creature landed and suddenly, impossibly, the Sea Serpent was in another world A world of the far future, where the land was uninhabitable and humanity as Kenlon knew it had died out A world in which the strange bird men of the air warred with the even stranger denizens of the sea for domination And in that bizarre battle for survival, the men from the 20th century were the vital factor Blurb from the 1977 Sphere paperback editionvan Vogt s collaboration with his wife, E Mayne Hull, is rathersuccessful than some of his later novels Originally published in 1944 in a shorter form by EMH, this expanded version set during the Korean War, rather than presumably WWII in the original was published in 1966.Sailors on a military sub see a winged man attaching unknown devices to their ship The winged man is captured, but the sub is taken twenty five thousand years into the future to help the winged humans in their war against the gilled humans who live in the ocean.It s never as simple as that with van Vogt though Several other ships from various times in Earth s history have been summoned to the future, and most of them want the sub to kill the sea people so that they can all be on their way.Thrown into the plot is a ship full of alligator people who planned to take over the Earth before the Winged Men hoiked their craft into the future.Kenyon, thrown into command of the ship after the Captain is kidnapped by sea men, is pressured from all sides to take action of some sort.However, being one of van Vogt s logical heroes, Kenyon manages to deal with various crises and eventually solve the problem to everyone s satisfaction apart from the alligator people who, being alligator people, were just begging to be exterminated Faraccessible than some of his solo work, this is a very interesting piece, although it is hard to determine how much of this is pure E Mayne Hull without reading the original short.Psychologists will no doubt rejoice in the news that van Vogt s penchant for phallic symbolism remains unabated, with the submarine itself, the cigar shaped vessel of the Yaz the alligator people and a plethora of cylindrical objects and weapons throughout the narrative This is in contrast to the domes and pyramid shapes of the cities of the sea men and bird men The Dome of the sea men is the city which everyone except the council of the bird men is begging Kenyon to penetrate with his big torpedoes.At one point the submarine is taken over by a group of s who are protected from a neural comatising effect by nullifiers in their clothes, Thus Kenyon has to strip them all naked after they were rendered unconscious by a chance lack of oxygen.Am I reading too much into the text I suspect not van Vogt makes an interesting study in terms of gender issues in the mid Twentieth century, maintaining until the last a conviction of the alien nature of female thinking [ Read ] ♟ The Winged Man ♂ IT WASN T A BIRD BUT IT COULDN T BE A MAN LtWilliam Kenlon had watched the incredible creature circling the submarine Sea Serpent in the darkness of the night, and he could barely believe what he sawThe giant winged monster was human and it was intent on some purpose that involved the sub and its crew Then the creature landed and suddenly, impossibly, the Sea Serpent was in another world A world of the far future where the land was uninhabitable and humanity as Kenlon knew it had died out A world in which the strange bird men of the air warred with the even stranger denizens of the sea for domination And in that bizarre battle for survival, the men from the th century were the vital factor This book is an expanded version of E Mayne Hull s short story The Winged Man which originally appeared in Astounding Science Fiction inApparently it was expanded and revised by van Vogt, who addedwords, altogether, inserted a new villain, and made better use of some of the characters , to quote a quote from Galactic Central bibliography Winged Man is an expanded version of Edna Mayne Hull s short story of the same name, published back in Astounding Science Fiction during 1944 The book begins with Lieutenant Kenlon of the nuclear submarine USS Sea Serpent spotting a giant bird miles from the land out in the pacific It soon turns out not to be a bird, but a winged man who affixes a device to the hull that catapults the submarine and its crew 25,000 years into the future The contine Winged Man is an expanded version of Edna Mayne Hull s short story of the same name, published back in Astounding Science Fiction during 1944 The book begins with Lieutenant Kenlon of the nuclear submarine USS Sea Serpent spotting a giant bird miles from the land out in the pacific It soon turns out not to be a bird, but a winged man who affixes a device to the hull that catapults the submarine and its crew 25,000 years into the future The continents have been turned into a gooey mush and the world is now populated by the winged men, who live in a floating city above the sea, and the mermen, who live in an undersea dome.The two species are at war and the mermen are winning Using a tractor beam recovered from a sunken city they are for no obvious reason, except perhaps to salvage it for parts slowly dragging the floating city down toward the sea Terrified, the winged men have used technology provided to them by their council to bring back seven oceangoing craft from the past that may be able to destroy the mermen The USS Sea Serpent is the oldest of these craft, and only when the mermen are destroyed will they be allowed home view spoiler Most of the book revolves around introductions, negotiations and conflicts between Kenlon and the crew members aboard the other craft As the USS Sea Serpent is the only one capable of destroying the underwater home of the merman Kenlon finds himself in an unenviable position with a genuinely tough decision to make The mermen, with their access to raw materials on the sea bed have a real chance of becoming a prosperous and useful civilization The winged men, however, confined to their floating city have little chance of long term success.Ultimately, Kenlon strives for balance by torpedoing the mermen s tractor beam and their council , which is the source of all their technical knowledge, whilst leaving the bulk of their city in tact This ensures that the mermen will be forced to rely upon cooperate with the winged men in the future.Before all this, however, the combined forces of the crews brought from the past manage to win a close battle against the crocodile like Yaz, who had been conspicuously lurking in their featureless ship throughout the book Winning the battle is important because it is revealed that the Yaz were responsible for transforming the continents to much all along, forcing the last land dwellers to bifurcate the human race in a hope for survival In defeating them before being transported back into the past Kenlon ensures that there is no clear barrier to this survival, and perhaps even the opportunity for the two species to work together to restore the earth to its former glory.Is their any broader point in all this I think it could be argued that the novel is a parable, of sorts, about the importance of ancient knowledge At every turn the past is wiser, and at every turn the past bests the future The last land dwellers, in their wisdom, created both the mermen and the winged men, gifting each with a council unsurprisingly, a computer containing all accumulated historical knowledge, to maximise the chances of humanity surviving on earth One of those species, the mermen, have proceeded to spurn the advice of their council on policy matters It is hinted that this has lead to some social problems and ultimately it has meant that they have engaged the winged men in a war that they will lose.This loss is brought about by the wise and balanced decision of a submarine commander from the prehistoric past, the only person capable of damaging the mermen, and the only truly patient and rational commander amongst those brought forward in time hide spoiler Is this a stretched interpretation Probably But I d be interested to read the original E Mayne Hull short story which is probablyparable and less cavorting between ships The book has been justly criticised by others for its late climax and it is worth saying that I was definitely expectingthan I got from all the inter ship action Nevertheless, I did enjoy reading some of this, and there is much to be said for expectatory pleasure Even if I do expect that the original will probably turn out to be better.Over at my blog I gave it 3.25 5.00 This was first published in 1967 when I was a lot younger than I now am and it shows Not so much in the story, as in the attitudes and assumptions of the writer s A.E van Vogt, from an original short story by E Mayne Hull The attitude towards women for example seems almost medieval, which shows how much things have changed in my lifetime But you could argue that it was entirely in keeping for the characters Strangely, while speculating on the possibilities of science thousands of yea This was first published in 1967 when I was a lot younger than I now am and it shows Not so much in the story, as in the attitudes and assumptions of the writer s A.E van Vogt, from an original short story by E Mayne Hull The attitude towards women for example seems almost medieval, which shows how much things have changed in my lifetime But you could argue that it was entirely in keeping for the characters Strangely, while speculating on the possibilities of science thousands of years in the future, the author didn t seem to have much idea about how things worked in his own time Or did the earliest atomic submarines really have auxiliary diesel engines They do turn out to be an essential part of the plot, so perhaps Van Vogt just skipped a few awkward details at that point And, in spite of the imperfections, it is a great story, with some wonderfully visualised future worlds and civilisations It also has a very serious ethical dilemma at its heart the atomic submarine USS Sea Serpent is kidnapped into the far future, where its 20th century weapons can effect the balance of power in a war between two species of human beings But should they take sides and if so, which one A short but absorbing read from one of the masters of science fiction s golden age 3.5 4 stars The earlier version published in Astounding Science Fiction 1944 has van Vogt s wife, E Mayne Hull as the co author there are very some changes between this and the original the sub is now atomic and updated to the Korean era, the other out of time ships are different and have roles to play, etc This is an ingenious timey wimey space opera An American submarine is patrolling skulking about the Pacific, when the watch officer, Kenlon, spots what looks like a large bird He 3.5 4 stars The earlier version published in Astounding Science Fiction 1944 has van Vogt s wife, E Mayne Hull as the co author there are very some changes between this and the original the sub is now atomic and updated to the Korean era, the other out of time ships are different and have roles to play, etc This is an ingenious timey wimey space opera An American submarine is patrolling skulking about the Pacific, when the watch officer, Kenlon, spots what looks like a large bird He reports it to his commanding officer, who comes topside in time for the arrival of a winged man who has affixed devices on the bow and stern And lo, the submarine is transported thirty thousand years into the future to a world without land where there is a conflict between the winged men and the fishmen descendants of the humans The sub isn t the only vessel out of time The winged men have visited multiple timelines in search of a vessel that can attack the fishmen s underwater city After the sub s commander is kidnapped by the fishmen, Kenlon is in charge and must make the decisions whether to ally with the other vessels and do the winged men s bidding Interestingly, one of the vessels is from the Clen period when women ruled Kenlon s reactions to the women s strength makes it perfectly clear that van Vogt Hull is not a feminist I read this for my 2020 Reading Challenge 52 in 2020 set in the future and the 2020 Hugo nomination Retro Best Novel 1944 Van Vogt is a frequently fascinating golden age author He is at his best in shorter forms, and his novels can be problematic The Winged Man is problematic The central idea is vintage Van Vogt Potential warships from various eras of mankind are hijacked by winged descendant of mankind in a far future era where all landmasses are uninhabitable mud The winged men are under attack by the fishmen, descendants of mankind engineered to live in the oceans, and the winged men need a submarine to des Van Vogt is a frequently fascinating golden age author He is at his best in shorter forms, and his novels can be problematic The Winged Man is problematic The central idea is vintage Van Vogt Potential warships from various eras of mankind are hijacked by winged descendant of mankind in a far future era where all landmasses are uninhabitable mud The winged men are under attack by the fishmen, descendants of mankind engineered to live in the oceans, and the winged men need a submarine to destroy the city of the fishmen In addition, a massive enigmatic ship may be crewed by aliens intend on colonizing the Earth A WWII era submarine seems to be the solution to the problem The scenario is full of potential that is only partially realized the plot seems to limp along However, this is still an entertaining and quick read I suspect that the shorter magazine version was better paced The Winged Man was serialized in Astounding Science Fiction, May June 1944, with the byline E Mayne Hull There s some debate as to how much of it was actually written by A.E van Vogt He is credited as the co writer on this first hardback edition from Doubleday in 1966 This edition is clearly a revision of the original serial for example, it contains a reference to the Korean War Unfortunately, it doesn t update the inherent sexism of the serial.The story itself meanders around with unmemo The Winged Man was serialized in Astounding Science Fiction, May June 1944, with the byline E Mayne Hull There s some debate as to how much of it was actually written by A.E van Vogt He is credited as the co writer on this first hardback edition from Doubleday in 1966 This edition is clearly a revision of the original serial for example, it contains a reference to the Korean War Unfortunately, it doesn t update the inherent sexism of the serial.The story itself meanders around with unmemorable characters The protagonist is a typical John Campbell, Jr super competent military man who finds himself entangled in a war between super advanced aliens but manages to save the day anyway There are a few good ideas buried in the book, but they aren t enough to make it very interesting